Church Hurt Is Real: Forgiveness, Healing & Holding On to Jesus
FULL TRANSCRIPT
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He's just a regular guy with a cool job that God loves for some reason. Welcome to The Steve Marston Show, a daily journey and learning how to live more like Jesus, conversations with those that God is working through and dad jokes. It's the most unique show you'll hear today. Now here's Steve. Okay. Welcome in one at all. The Steve Marston Show is underway and we are thankful that you're here. We'd like to say a special shout out.
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at the top of every show to our radio audience. They have been with us from the jump AM 6 30 the word in San Antonio. That never gets old does it? And 99.5 the word in Little Rock every day like clockwork three o'clock comes around and our program is on the rest of you joining us by podcast on your own schedule on your own time. And we're super thankful for you being here as well. And I wanted to start today the way I start
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a lot of shows by telling you something that I came across while just minding my own business going through my life. I was scrolling through social media and this story just kind of hit me pretty hard. And I thought because it hits me pretty hard, it will probably resonate with you as well. Because in this day and age, we're seeing a lot of church abuse happening. We're also seeing
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a lot of church abuse being denied. And unfortunately, I think sometimes it takes something to happen to somebody on a quote unquote higher pedestal, somebody with a bigger name to be able to make sure that the lesser known names are taken seriously. Does that make sense? And maybe this story will help that because this is about John
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and Corey Cooper. They are the founders of the band Skillet. They've been married to one another for decades now and they are been making music with Skillet for almost the same amount of time. John is the main singer and songwriter with the band Skillet and they are coming out with some revelations about some spiritual abuse that they've been experiencing at a church that they've been attending for more than 30 years.
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Now, Cory's father founded this church and it's the only church she's ever been a member of. this is fascinating and I mean, it's all kinds of emotions all wrapped up into one. Let's begin by talking about what exactly happened here and what the results have been. John explained that over the last couple of years, without exaggerations, he and Cory's life have been absolutely devastated.
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He says that it was so traumatic that they struggled to even pray and to read the Bible. But nevertheless, they are still clinging to Jesus and are slowly healing. I can say I never gave up on Jesus. I never questioned whether Jesus is real, but it's been like, Jesus, I need you to meet me every day because I don't know where I belong. I don't know where you are right now. I don't understand.
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what has happened to us, John said. And the hurt came from someone who had been John's best friend for 30 years. And he says to be disregarded and discarded and treated the way we've been treated by him, it's just unbelievable. When you're dealing with people like that, I love them more than anybody else in the world. They've been so good to me. It's been the best years of my life.
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And also, I feel like I'm being discarded and abused in a way that I wouldn't even imagine an enemy treating me like. And he says, I don't know how to reconcile these things. It puts you into a middle place where I had to break with reality. Now, I'm just going to stop right there in the middle of the story. Maybe you're saying, oh my gosh, it's happened to someone else besides just me. If that's you, I want you to understand.
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that I believe church abuse happens. I believe that there are people that do try to sweep things under the rug and try to make the abusers out to be the victims and the victims themselves are quietly kind of discarded and not even talked about. So just know that even though we can't understand why it's happening,
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and why God is allowing it to happen, that God is still there. Just like John and Cory are talking about here in their story, they never let go of Jesus during this whole time. And they're still not out of the woods as far as emotionally healing from this. They're slowly starting to, but it's not over yet. They're still in the middle of it. And yet, they know that Jesus is there.
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And that's the thing you have to come to grips with as well. If you or a loved one is in that situation and going through the same kind of questions that they are asking and saying, God, where are you in this? Just know he's never left you. I know it doesn't feel like it. It doesn't look like it. You can't imagine that being true. But we have to stand on what God's Word says. And God's Word says, will never leave us.
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even when it sounds like, it feels like, and everything in the situation feels like that he has. Okay, so let's continue with John and Cory's story here. He says, this is actually Cory saying, I'm gonna go with Peter's answer to Jesus when she was asked, how do you handle this? What do you do? She says, Peter's answer to Jesus was, where else can we go? You have the words of eternal life.
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that comes from John 6, 68, and 69. It's my favorite scripture in all of the Bible because of situations just like this. When life doesn't make sense, when it doesn't add up, where else can we go? Who else can we turn to but the one who created everything and has the words of eternal life? Corey said, I know God is real. I know that he is good. I know I can't make sense of everything that's happened.
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but he's who I want. He's who I want to live for. I want to honor him. I'm finally to the place that I can thank God for this season," John said. I never thought I'd get here. God has healed me in such a massive way about two months ago, and it was instantaneous. He said, the skillet front man has gone on to talk about...
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how it has made him far more compassionate to others than he ever has been before. He said, I see that God has done and has used this to reform me and to show me some of the things that I thought weren't actually a big deal, that are actually really a huge deal. The doctrine was a huge deal and you put up with some things you shouldn't have put up with and it ended up taking you on a very bad path. If someone's telling you they've got some kind of secret word,
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that God has given just to them about your specific situations. Look, if it doesn't add up with what the rest of Scripture says, absolutely run from them. But the point of the matter is this. When you are in a desperate situation, you can't give up on God. It is the people in God's name who have hurt you, but not God Himself. Does that mean you need to find another church? Absolutely.
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Does that mean you need to break off some friendships? Absolutely. Does that mean you need to take time to be healed by God in a way that's personal and deep? Absolutely it does. Not trying to minimize any of that, but the thing we have to do is keep our eyes focused on Him through the entire process. And you say, but Steve, I can't see Him, I can't feel Him, I can't touch Him, I can't...
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know for sure that He is there. Again, that's where we come back to the fact that what His Word says, because our situations and our minds will tell us things that are not true. They will lie to us, they will deceive us, but God's Word never changes in the midst of the storm. It is always an anchor that we can hold on to. And even if that just means, God, I know that You're good, God, I know that You're here in the midst of this,
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even though you haven't revealed yourself, I'm trusting and putting my faith in that, so please meet me where I am. And on the authority of God's Word, I can tell you that He will. Now it may not look like the way you want it answered, but He will be there answering in His way and His time. You've just got to hold on until that happens. He will not forsake any of His children. That's His promise to you and I.
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and you gotta hold on to that like nothing else.
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The Steve Marston Show continues. Discipleship has never been as much fun. Thanks for your company. Wanted to talk in our segment called That's Not in the Bible about something that really dovetails with what we were talking about with the John and Corey Cooper situation in the earlier segment. You church hurt is real. Church abuse is real. And I know that people are victims of it and are made to feel like...
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less than by some, and it seems like sometimes the abusers are getting away with stuff. Well, just know first of all that nobody gets away with anything. God is the ultimate judge. And whether it's here on earth or whether it's after this life is over with, God is going to right every single wrong. How do I know that? Because He's promised it in His Word, and we have to stand on that. So even
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if justice doesn't come in this life, it will come. And that's promised by the ultimate judge, the pure and holy one, the one that is the righteous, the most righteous in the entire universe. So you can rest in that if nothing else. And we do a feature called, That's Not in the Bible on Tuesdays, where we kind of break some
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myths down that people think that the Bible says, but not really. And I think this one, again, dovetails really nicely with our first segment because there's a part of people who think that the Bible says to forgive and to forget because, again, that's what we have been taught, or at least that's the popular phraseology of it.
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But actually, the Bible doesn't say anything about forgetting what has happened to you. Now, does it say forgiveness? Absolutely. And I know I've said this on multiple episodes, and I will say it in multiple episodes down the road. But forgiveness is something that we are commanded to do. Regardless of what has happened to us, regardless of the injustice, regardless of the way we feel, we have to forgive.
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because forgiveness is healthy. Forgiveness is something that we have to do for our own selves. We're not taking that hurt and having it turn to bitterness and anger because it will rob and steal all of your joy and you'll become just a miserable, bitter person because of it. But again, forgiveness is not
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a get out of jail free card. It's not like, oh, well, I'm going to forgive him as if nothing ever happened. No, that's not what we're saying at all. Hopefully, if it's been something really bad, criminal wise, the justice system will be there and it will work for you. But again, even if it doesn't, God has promised that He will be the ultimate judge in that situation and He will, again, right every wrong.
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But forgiveness takes away your emotion of holding on to the hurt. It's letting that go. It's letting the process of healing begin. Because until you're ready to deal with that, you're probably not going to have the healing that you need. And that's what you ultimately want, isn't it? I mean, as much as you would like to see
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the same thing happened to the person who did it to you because you want them to experience that pain. I think you would even say a greater emotion, a greater feeling that you would have is to just be free of all this. Wouldn't you? Well, I think so. And that comes through forgiveness. Now, forgiveness is never easy. Forgiveness is a process. It's a step-by-step deal.
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Sometimes it takes you giving it over to God moment by moment because the little things in your head start talking and you start playing out scenarios in your mind and all of a sudden you're focused on it and it's the thing you think about when you wake up and the last thing you think about when you go to bed. That's not freedom, that's bondage and you want to be free from that. Well you got to give it over to God.
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You've got to say, God, I forgive that person for what they've done. I've let it go. And I'm trusting that you will pick up the pieces of this shattered life that I have because of it. When you do that, that's when the process starts. And I will tell you that as you go along, the more you can give it over to God consistently and faithfully, the more it is freedom that you will find.
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It's not instantaneous necessarily, but it is a process. And the wonderful thing about God is He never allows a hurt to go without some kind of benefit for you. A hurt that you've experienced, God can take and make something beautiful out of those ashes. And He can do that with whatever it is that you're hurt and abused about.
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Put your faith in that. And again, you're not saying, you're not told or commanded anywhere in scripture to forget what happened. In fact, in a lot of ways, you need to remember what happened. Because you don't want someone else going through what you went through. You want to be able to see the warning signs and to be able to say, I went through something like this. Maybe you need to be careful here and not let your experience go in vain.
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And another reason not to forget is because you don't want to get sucked back in to that same trap that got you there in the first place, right? So, forgiveness is key. Forgiveness is absolute must. In fact, it's a commandment. Jesus didn't just suggest for us to forgive. He commanded us as followers of Him that we must forgive. Period. Full stop. End of statement.
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But never forget what happened. And never forget how God took what was broken in your life by someone else's doing and made something beautiful out of it. That is the key. So forgiveness, yes. Forgetting, absolutely not. Hey, quickly let me remind you that we have a free PDF available at our website, Five Tips for Bible Study.
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It's a wonderful little resource to help you in your Bible study when you just open the Word to try to find out the most from God's Word, just you and God. So if you would like to get it, it's absolutely free. It's downloadable at stevemarsdonshow.com. Just head to the website. And again, these are just strategies that will help you in your Bible reading.
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on your own. So check it out, SteveMarsdenShow.com. It's called Five Tips for Bible Study. Alright, hang around with us. We've got more of the Steve Marsden Show coming up. Don't move.
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you
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Okay, welcome back. It's the Steve Marston Show here on AM 630, The Word in San Antonio. you know, there are just certain people that maybe you don't know very well, but you meet them, whether it's through just a chance encounter or whether it's on the telephone. And you just are like, wow, I like that guy. I like that girl. I like spending time with them because they just have the radiance of Christ all over them. And I want to be a part of that.
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Our guest today is 100 % fits that bill. His name is Pastor Felix Chavez. He's the pastor of the New Life Baptist Church in Pearsall, and I am thrilled to have him here. So Pastor Felix, thanks so much for your time. Now, thank you so much, brother, for the opportunity that you're giving me to share, you know, the testimony that the Lord has given me.
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I just want to do a quick... One of my favorite scriptures is Psalm 118, 24, and 25. And they say, is the day that the Lord has made. Let us rejoice in it. Be glad in it. This is the day of salvation. So He, already every morning that I open my eyes, I can see the near day. And the only thing that I... And I believe in that verse, he commands.
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to rejoice and be glad in it. So that's the way that I have learned through him to what he's done in me to live my life. So sorry I didn't have to say that to begin and to kind of introduce myself. That is fantastic because it really is something that we are commanded to do every single day. And it puts us not so much because God wants some kind of, you know, hero worship, but it's because if we don't,
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If we don't rejoice and be glad in Him every day, we're going to be forgetful. We're not going to remember Him. That's why He put it in there, I think. Amen. And you know, it's because every day He's adding something marvelous. Even in hard moments, He's adding to our testimony. That is not ours. His testimony put it into us so that way we will be able to show the world.
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how great is the God that we serve. Amen. Speaking of testimony and His testimony, how did you come to know the Lord as your Savior? Tell us your story. Okay, we're going to go back, back, back. Okay. Well, first of all, I would like to thank you for this opportunity. It's amazing to be able to share what the Lord, you know, and I say it this way.
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how the Lord prepared eternity to eternity for that moment inside the earth that He brought us. So my story does not begin when I arrived to the United States. My story begins when God decided to give me purpose even before I was born. like He's saying in the Scriptures, you know, in Ephesians chapter 1, verse 3 and 4, especially in verse 4, and
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And I'm just going to be giving the verses, but you can check in them, And through all these, I am someone that has learned that every single stage of life, even ones we don't understand, has a purpose in the hands of the Lord. And I didn't know, you know,
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Like I told you when we have been speaking, I was born in Monterrey, Nuevo León, Mexico. And even I thought I was born in a specific place. Today, I can understand something very clearly. That I was not just from Monterrey. I was formed there. I was shaped through experiences, processes, good moments, and difficult ones that at the time.
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I did not understand. And some of them I still don't understand, but you know, his work is being done in us every single day. But today I can say this with full clarity. I was born in Monterrey, but I was formed through processes that God used to prepare me for something greater that I could understand. And I'm gonna read something that...
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I write through this process of, okay, going back to the beginning where everything starts. Yeah, please do. And it says, because God never waste any season, even when we don't understand it. I repeat, because God never waste any season, even when we don't understand it.
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You know, one of the, one of the moments, and I didn't understand that, but one of the moments that my wheel was fighting with gut wheels back in 1997, when I was brought from here, from here, from the United States of America. and I didn't want to come to the States, not because I don't love the America, the United States, I was going to say, Estados Unidos, but it's because I was pleased in Mexico.
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I love to come to the United States as a tourist, but that was my will. That was my plan. But, you know, it was not my, he gave me opportunity, but in 1997 without ourselves asking for documents to be able to come and live in the United States, we got, you know, a letter from the state department that say that we have to present ourselves to Juarez, Mexico to receive.
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residency in El Encarte. And that was the last part of the process. And I didn't know, but thanks God for my sister and my brother-in-law, Sylvia and Daniel Darach, we received that opportunity. So we were actually moved by God without we noticing in that moment. And when we moved here, and you know, I was stubborn because that was in March.
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And we got everything. But until May, I received a phone call offering me a job here in the United States in San Antonio. And I was, you know, I was being Felix. I said, okay, I'm gonna go to the interview. But I was thinking to myself, I'm gonna ask you for this much. But you know how the Lord does, okay? When he has plans with you, it doesn't matter.
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Sometimes he's going to push you harder than you were expecting to be able to step into his kingdom to do in you what he wants to be doing in you and do start his transformation work for you to be able to show the world that you are part of his family, part of his kingdom. when I moved in, so they give me, know, they say, okay, we offer you this much. And also they pay for all my insurance and everything.
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And so I was not able to say no because they overpassed my expectations. Wow. We're visiting with Pastor...hang on just a second...we're visiting with Pastor...I just want to make sure everybody knows who we're talking to. This is Pastor Felix. He's from the New Life Baptist Church in Pearsall. He's joining us here on the Steve Marston Show. Again, didn't want to interrupt your stream of thought there, but I do want to say that seems like what happens a lot with us as Christians, whether or not we
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really realize it or not, we get comfortable where we're at, and God never wants us comfortable. He always wants us stretching and moving and drawing closer to Him. Amen. And you know, and I want to share this because I think it's really important, and maybe some listener needs to these words. it's a, you know, when I got here, it was a season of judgment, changes, challenges, and questions.
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Moments in which I ask myself, where do I belong? Who I am in the middle of all this? But over time, I was able to understand something powerful what's happening into my life. In 1997, I crossed a geographic border, but without knowing it, was leading me, God was leading me into my destiny.
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Because before I was in Mexico and I was living a religious life, but I was lost. I didn't have that relationship with the Lord. And I was able to in back in 2004, after my wife, my day that we have been married for 43 years now, it's going to be this year is our 44th anniversary and my children, Bette, Carlos and Felix.
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You know, they were going to Iglesia del Señor in San Antonio. And I was going to a Catholic church. But one morning when I dropped them at the Christian church and I was driving to the Catholic church, he told me, I didn't put you together. So one go and seek for me in one place and the other one go and seek for me in another place.
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So in 2004, and in the middle of a shower, in 2003 I confess Jesus Christ has my Lord and Savior. But I did, you know, to please men, so stop them, you know, because they were sorry for the war, but they were bugging me. Oh, Jesus is one, Genesis is another, and I know, I know, I did have my knowledge of God in that moment. So to stop that, I repeat the sentences that they asked me to.
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But in 2004, the next day of my birthday, that was September 17th, 2004, in the middle of the shower, after I drunk, I was drinking a lot the previous day, I fall in my knees under the shower, and right there I start to cry out and say, Father, you say that you love me.
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you say that you choose me. You know that I have been battling with alcohol and cigarettes and telling bad jokes, dirty jokes.
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And I, now I find out that I'm weak. I have tried, but I haven't been able to. But if you take away this from me, I'm gonna seek you in the morning, in the afternoon, in the evening, and I'm gonna serve you all my life. And my family is gonna serve you. And since 19, since 2004, September 17, I haven't drink a drop of alcohol, a drop of beer.
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or smoke a cigarette. Praise the Lord. So that's part of what... I was just going to say that's an amazing testimony of how God can just take someone who thinks they have all the right religious stuff and really show them their need for Him. We're visiting with Pastor Felix. He is from the New Life Baptist Church in Pearsaw here on the Steve Marsden show on AM 630 The Word.
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Let me ask you this. Let's jump cut to how now you are involved as a pastor leading this congregation. Tell me about your church. Okay, we are located in I-35 down going from San Antonio down to Laredo. It's a little town. Well, it's town, Pursuit, Texas. It's exit 101 in I-35.
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And the population is around a little bit more than 10,000 people. We have different churches, but I'm there to see for the Hispanic community. The church, Iglesia de la Pista Nueva Vida, New Life Baptist Church, we are concentrated to serve the Spanish speakers. But the Lord has opened doors and has given us opportunity to serve also people that speak just English.
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Also, we we ask for your prayers to everybody. We're connecting to the pure soul in the Pennell School District to to land a project into the high school in Pearson and the middle high in Pearson so that way we can start. To reach the next generation, that's wonderful. And because we need to we need to yes, one of the one of the things that I.
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I have learned through the years because I have been able to serve youth, the youth is that we can hear a big cry out. We want to be seen. We want to be here. We need to feel love. And so that has been a burden into my heart. you know, even it had take me to study how can I really
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speak their language so that way they can understand and they can feel love and they can so that's uh I think we're gonna we're planning uh that's willing be responsible in may also has a an english service but especially looking for a youth service you know yeah we have a yeah we're planning some programs to run in in the high school in the middle school uh and and so and we are trying to get
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the community involved because what we are doing at the church, OK, we congregate in a building. But we are the church. Yes. And we can transport the church. We congregate every Sunday, you know, to worship our Father God, to receive. And I'm going to speak like a coach, American football coach, because I did coach also in the past. And it's a
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In Sunday, we got together to receive the instructions and to prepare for the big game. So we receive all the instructions, we receive the guidance, and we receive the bread that we need to be able to left the building and go and be the church out there, bringing and accomplishing the mission, bringing the bread to the needed ones, and start the game day, start.
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after you cross the door to go out and then come back next Sunday. Pastor Felix, it has been a pleasure to get to know you. Now, I'm going to try this in Spanish, okay? So, I fully admit I can't do this very well, but it's Iglesia Batista Nueve Vida. Is that close? Is that good? Excellent. Now, I'm going to do something that the people like to for me when I...
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When I sing them the birthday, happy birthday song, I just do something like that. It's like a fireworks. And, and, and I don't know if I can, I can just close with this. Okay. This is what, uh, and today I, I live with a very clear conviction and I'm sharing to you today. We're not here to see what's going to happen. We're here to make it happen because
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God has already deposited in each one of us everything we will need to accomplish it. So true. We've got to leave it right there, Pastor Felix. Thank you so much and God bless. God bless you too, brother.
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Welcome back to Steve Marston Show Continues. are thankful that you are listening, whether you're on radio or on our podcast. We're thrilled and delighted to be with you. And it's fun to welcome in a couple that is doing some things that are pretty amazing in our community. okay, technically it's God doing the work through them, but they are on the front lines of foster and adoption in our community. want to welcome in Ryan and Andrea Engel.
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Guys, welcome into the Steve Marsden show. It's great to have you all here. Thank you. Yeah, thanks for having us. OK, let's start ladies first. Andrea, you work with the call in Saline County, which we'll get into here in a little bit exactly what you guys do there. But just talking about your own personal journey of how you and Ryan came together to decide how you wanted to get involved in why foster care seemed like the right thing to do for you and to for your family.
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All right. Well, we opened our home to foster back in 2021 and the process probably started in the fall of 2020. Ryan and I just independently felt a call to foster. knew there was a need. We were around others that had fostered and we came to each other and prayed about it and felt like that was what
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God was calling our family to do. We still had two kids at home, our two girls, and they were on board and excited about this. And so we started the process with the call here in Saline County, and they helped us through the paperwork and everything to get our home open. In March 2021, we opened up and we took in two preaching girls. Wow. So Ryan, that's kind of a confirmation from God, isn't it? If you've...
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have it placed on your heart and your wife independently comes up with kind of the same idea and your kids are all on board. I mean, that's almost like God saying, hey, you guys need to do this, isn't it? No doubt. I think our adoption story is kind of the same thing. God's speaking to both of us kind of separately. And then, yeah, when we sit down to really talk through what the Lord's doing in our hearts and our lives.
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You know, but he let us down this road. It's been a huge blessing. And Ryan, you being a pastor, I would imagine that adds a little more strain to everything, because let's be honest, being a pastor is not like a normal job. mean, not only do you have a whole family at home to worry about and to take care of, but you've got an extended family at church to worry and take care of. I guess so, yes.
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Um, I think, uh, what's, what's nice about it is, uh, you know, seeing a pastor, it sort of includes your family and your job by default, you know, or should, uh, if you're doing it correctly, your family's going along with you. And so, um, there's a very natural exposure that, uh, that there are the foster kids that have come through our house, um, um, have had to the church, um, uh, and to the body of Christ.
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because of my role. Well, I am so glad you guys answered the call and decided to take that leap of faith of fostering and adopting because I know it's not easy. I remember we had Christine Faith on the program who adopts and fosters in White County and she was talking about how it seems like every time we have foster parents on to talk about stuff, it's always the pleasant side, the sunshiny side.
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But really, there could be some bad times and some negative sides that aren't always talked about. Isn't that right, Andrea? There is, because you're coming into a situation that's broken, whether, you know, our youngest daughter we adopted and we met her when she was one day old and we brought her home from the hospital, which was wonderful how God put all that together.
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I mean, they're still brokenness, you know, because she is not with her biological mom. So even though there's joy in she's a part of our family, she still there's a loss that she feels, you know, not being with her biological mom. So there are times where it's hard. Ryan and Andrea Engold are our guests here on the Steve Marston show.
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Ryan is a pastor of Crosspoint Church in Bryant, and Andrea works with The Call in Saline County. And we're talking about their experience with foster and adoptive care, as well as what The Call does here in our state. So Ryan, as a pastor and a dad of both adoptive and biological kids and a foster dad, what do you say to those people who raise that red flag and say, look, I love what you guys are doing?
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It's amazing, but I just don't know that I could ever do that because I don't think I could ever love a child that's not mine biologically as much as I am supposed to. Yeah, I think that's kind of a theological thing. I think there's some theological things that need to be settled first. knowing who...
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God is knowing how he has created people knowing that people have dignity that they're made in his image. Um and so, uh, yeah, I mean, I think, uh, you know, our heart needs to be a large for. Kids aren't necessarily our biological. I remember being asked by a family member. You know how long it took for our adopted daughter to feel like my own,
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never thought of it any other way. You know, so, um, it's a little different with foster kids because you know, this is temporary. Um, but, but, uh, when you know your role, um, and you know, also that, that God designed this person and this is not an accident that this person is living in your home, um, and that he's working through, uh, our situation to be a blessing to their life somehow, some way in ways we don't even know.
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Um, uh, we love them because we love God first. you go. It's kind of the great, the great commandment, right? And the second great commandment. Well, but let's go back and let's answer that question that your family member had. How long did it take for the adoptive girl that, that came into a new home to feel a part of the family? We were, I mean, all she ever knew, you know, so we brought her home from the hospital and
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She was just always a part of our family, mom, dad, her brothers, her sister. So I think it didn't take till she was a little older, you know, and we would always share with her. She's adopted. That was never anything we had. And I think different stages of life, different developmental stages, it brings out certain hard times, you know? So we just, you know, work through those and
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lover and she you know she worked through those and she also has some other friends that are adopted and I think that helps as well. Oh wow I didn't realize that that's amazing. Well let me ask you this question because I think the old school way of thinking with an adoptive child is to just kind of brush it under the rug not let the child know their real backstory what exactly happened and how they came into being into your house.
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because they didn't want to cause the child any more trauma than what maybe they've already experienced. Maybe it came from a good place, but that probably isn't the healthiest way to go about it, right? Oh, for sure. I think it's best to be upfront about it from the very beginning. I heard the adoptee share one time. Her parents did not tell her she was adopted, and she did not find out until she was an adult.
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And she said there was always something that she felt was just a little something off connection. She could never put, really put it to words. And once she found that out, she was like, Oh, so there was something. And she said, you know, I wish I would have known that because that would have made more sense and it would have been more clear to me. So definitely, I mean, the kids need to know that. And that's something that you work on together.
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Ryan and Andrea Engel are my guests here on the Steve Marston show. Ryan is the pastor of Crosspoint Church in Bryant. Andrea works for the call there in Saline County, and they're both foster and adoptive parents. And that's what we're talking about here on the Steve Marston show. Now, Ryan, adoption is a little bit different than fostering, and it takes really a special type person and a special calling, maybe is the best way to say it, to be able to do
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fostering in your home, right? Yes. And I also think that the people that go over looked in this case a lot of times are the biological parents who have lost custody and they've got to straighten some things out. We have to have compassion for their situation, their plight. And, you know, when we we haven't always been able to, but when we can.
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We try to cultivate a relationship with them, knowing that we want to be as good of an influence on them as we possibly can and prepare them for reentry of this child into their home. And so it takes a lot of prayer. It takes a lot of trust. There's a lot of unknowns. There's a lot of variables. There's a lot of turns in the road. In every foster case, they're all unique and they're all different.
45:19
You know, there are adults that are a part of this equation that we've got to care for as well. Absolutely. And I think that is such a good point. Andrea, when you're talking about fostering and you bringing these kids in, the whole goal in this is to be able to once mom and dad gets back on track, to be able to reunite them. It's all about first and foremost, getting that those biological people back together, right?
45:47
Correct. Yeah, reunification is always the first goal. Yeah, and it's always so important because you want the kids to be with their parents and the kids need to be with their parents if it's safe and healthy for them. Right. So let me ask you this question, and I'd to get both of you to weigh in on this because I think there are probably people listening right now that would say, man, I'm so thankful for the Ingalls and what they're doing and
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the way they have listened to God's call and have stepped out in faith. But boy, I just don't know if I have what it takes, especially in the area of foster care, to be able to do that. What would y'all's encouragement be to someone who may be in that position right now? The Holy Spirit? We don't have what it takes either. All of us are flawed and not equipped for...
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for certain things and it's not a skill level. It's not like you arrive at a, you know, now obviously I think there are some special needs and some high needs and some kids that have like some high degree of, and Andrew could probably speak better to that than I can, but. Oh, trauma, trauma that they've been through. Yeah. And so there may be a specialized home that some kids need, but
47:14
By and large, most of these cases. Um it's really more about, um. Me loving this kid that I don't know. Enough to welcome them into our home to give them everything that they need, not just the tangible stuff like clothes and food, but also. Just attention and playing with them and reading with them and those kinds of things. Uh know, just loving them enough to do it. I mean, that's
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the bigger case than having these skills or not. I hope that makes sense. No, no, it does. Andrea, speak to those people who have maybe thought about this, but have just for whatever reason not taken that step out of the boat and taken that first step of faith in going through this process. How would you encourage them to do that? Sure. If someone is feeling like God has placed His call on their heart,
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I would reach out to maybe another foster family, know, in Sling County in Arkansas. You can reach out to a call, the call affiliate. And we are here to walk alongside you to help you go down that road, to get trained, to open your home, and then also to walk along with you in the fostering journey. And, you know, some people are called to foster.
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Some people are called to help in other ways. know, people in our church when we had foster kids, when they brought a meal over, that was such a huge blessing. Or on a Sunday evening when we had people in our home and they would take the little two-year-old that was having a rough time and kind of take him and just play with him for the evening to give me a little break. Those things are so important. To volunteer at the call office, you know, we have...
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clothing closets where foster parents are able to come in and shop. We also have respite families, which is a huge need. You're not fostering, bringing in a long-term placement, but you're providing respite for these foster families who maybe need a weekend break or a week of vacation. So that's a way to kind of start not jumping in all the way, but
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helping these other foster families. So there are so many ways to help in the fostering community. You know, that's such a good point because I think every time we talk about this issue of foster and adoptive care, it's always from the point of, well, do you have what it takes? Do you want to be a foster parent? But honestly, we're not all called to do that, but we can step in and help out people in our church that may be fostering or adopting and say, hey, you know what? You guys leave the kids with me.
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for a couple hours, go grab dinner tonight together, maybe go to a movie or just just go get away for a little bit and we'll keep the kids. I mean, that's amazing and it's so huge in the lives of those parents for sure. A man who runs hard after Jesus Christ looks like because they've probably never seen that before. And so that's huge. That's absolutely huge for a young child to be exposed to.
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to men who lead with strength and dignity and compassion. All those things can be true in one man. They're true in one man in Jesus Christ, right? So they're running hard after him, then they're gonna see Jesus through us, even if it's imperfectly. And Andrea, give everybody some ways they can get connected with the call, whether it's in Saline County or Pulaski County or maybe even White County.
51:03
How can they get a hold of the call? You can find the call online. Look us up online, The Call in Arkansas, and you can find your affiliate, whichever county you're in. Give us a call, and we would love to have you come in, give you a tour of our call centers. We have clothing closets. Visits are made with biological families. talk to you about ways you could volunteer or be a foster family.
51:32
We're right there to help you. That is tremendous. And you guys are being the hands and feet of Jesus. And I am thankful for you guys doing that, just answering the call, which you guys talk about a lot. So Ryan and Andrea Engel, thanks so much for your time and joining us here on the show today. Thank you for having us on.
51:52
Welcome back to Steve Marston Show rolling on. It's where faith and fun are both taken seriously. Gonna get to some stories you may have missed over the last several days. And I missed that this was a show even at all. But apparently there is a reality show called Special Forces. Are you aware of this? Special Forces takes a group of celebrities on an obstacle course kind of thing that is done
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by members of the military special forces. I mean, it's the real hard level training kind of stuff. Now, why the world? Any person would want to do that, much less a celebrity? I don't know. But maybe it's the military way of getting their giggles off for taking some people who are always in the spotlight and bringing them down a couple of pegs. I don't know. But one of the participants in this year's
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Special Forces reality show is Candace Cameron Bure. Yep, you know her from all of the Christmas movies. She was on Full House, on Fuller House, and now she is going to try to survive all of these training exercises by these Special Forces operatives that used to be in the United States military. So Candace was on the program called My View with Laura Trump talking about
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the new series, or the new season of this series that's coming up. And the conversation got to Cameron's faith. Here's what she had to say. This was pretty interesting. You are so known for prayer walks and your spirituality and your faith. And it's something that I think you have kind of bucked the trend. You have been so forward with your faith. I'm curious if there was ever anyone in your past who said, you know what, maybe you want to downplay that a little bit.
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Maybe in Hollywood, it's not a great thing to be out front with that. Yeah, you kind of hear that all the time, you know, but my core people have never said that to me, whether that be my husband, my parents, my brother and sisters, even the people that represent me, my my managers, they've never said that to me. But I've heard it along the way because I've been canceled from shows. I've been taken off bookings because I talk too much about my faith or I'm polarizing in their words. But you know what?
54:15
If I didn't talk about it, I wouldn't be authentic to me and who I am. And my faith has been a part of me and important to me since I was a little girl. So I'm never going to stop talking about it. Then I would just stop talking about all the things that make me who I am. That lady does take some slings and arrows from the society at large from time to time, but I'm thankful for her example. That's Candace Cameron Beray again on with Laura Trump from my view. Again, the special forces.
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reality series starring Candace Cameron Bure will hit Fox Network on September 24th. How about this? Franny Cash, in a story you may have missed, started talking about how her upbringing in a cult has shaped her understanding of God. This is a really bizarre story that has a great ending, but she said she had to unlearn a lot of things before developing a healthy faith.
55:12
She said, I always felt like half of learning is unlearning. And I think for some people it can be even more than half of learning is unlearning. Like for me, I think it was 80 % of what I had learned I needed to unlearn. She said, I had no idea that God was like that. Quieting my fears, I truly thought that God was the source of my fears and the one to be most afraid of. But she said,
55:41
that that just wasn't the case. And it was so hard for her to be able to unlearn all of that and learn about the grace and the love and the mercy of Jesus. Of course, she and her family are the band We the Kingdom, and they had some major success before Franny made the decision to leave the band. In fact, she said she had all kinds of thoughts of what she needed to do and what God was calling her to, but
56:10
Never did she ever think about leaving Christian music. She said, I honestly just love Jesus too much. I don't know what else I'd write about, you know? She said, I just love him. And she has been someone who I have gotten to know just a teeny tiny little bit. And she and her family both were just amazing people, very humble and very much someone who has gone from exactly a polar end
56:40
of a tremendously bad thing in that cult all the way to leading worship for Jesus. It just is so amazing and only a Jesus story when you really stop and think about it. By the way, Franny Cash has a brand new album coming out. It's called Here I Am and it'll be available for download starting on September 18th. And then here's this story you may have missed. Archaeologists have been excavating
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near one of the most holy sites there in Israel. And they've uncovered new evidence that appears to align in striking detail with the biblical account of Jesus' crucifixion and burial. They've been digging around the Church of the Holy Sepulcher where it's always said that Jesus was put in a tomb there, least temporarily. And while archaeological findings
57:37
on this dig do not prove that Jesus was buried in the specific tomb that's traditionally associated with him. They did provide evidence that the surrounding landscape was consistent with the description recorded in John's Gospel. guy named Doug Estes, he's an associate professor of religion at the New College of Florida. What a cool name, the New College of Florida, specializes in early Christianity and he called this significant. He said,
58:05
has over time and time again confirmed details of the Gospel of John. He pointed to another example in John chapter 5, which described the pool of Bethsaida as having five colonnades. Scholars once questioned that description, but Estes said later archaeological discoveries revealed a layout capable of producing five colonnades, just as John described. In the same way, scholars have largely doubted whether or not Jesus
58:34
would have been buried in an orchard, as Estes said, but instead we have found or we have finding that there's a confirmed garden there and so the Gospel of John has been proven to be accurate again in its details. And I just love that. Every time it seems like science tries to disprove the Bible by using archaeological records, it always comes up that the Gospel
59:02
true and the Bible is trustworthy. It just solidifies my faith and I'm sure it does yours as well. Quickly, let me tell you about our website, SteveMarsdenShow.com. We kind of stripped it down to the studs a couple of weeks ago. I guess it's been about a month ago now and we've really rebuilt it so that it will be a resource library for anyone looking for the stuff we talk about, whether they're believers or not. We are
59:28
working hard to make sure that Google and YouTube and all the major search engines have access to our interviews, to our topics that we talk about so that we can provide hope to anyone who needs it. It's so much bigger than a website for a radio show slash podcast, and we would love for you to check it out. SteveBarstonShow.com.
59:54
Here at the Steve Marston Show, we're serious about faith, but we love a good dad joke, too. The dad joke of the day comes to us from the home office in New Brunsvilles, Texas. I bought a thesaurus yesterday, but when I got home, all of the pages were blank. I have no words to describe how angry I am.
01:00:18
you see, Thesaurus is a book of adjectives and similes, right? Ah, yeah, see? Now, now it clicks in, right? Welcome back. Steve Marston's show, Roll It On. It's the Christian radio show slash podcast that really matters, and we are glad that you're participating in today's festivities. Faith Between Your Ears is something we do every single day on this program.
01:00:45
We start out at the beginning of the week with a Bible verse that we are challenged to memorize, and we take each day of the week to do just that, because I'm convinced that our faith is so much of a mindset that it really is between our ears how we handle things and how we look at things. But the only way to be able to have that correct mindset is to know what God's Word says for ourself, not having to...
01:01:12
always say, oh well you know I know the Bible says something about this and that. No, when we have it memorized, when we have it between our ears, it makes all of that, well you know I think, go out the window. It's now I know. Such a big difference. So here's this week's Faith Between Your Ears. It's 1 Peter chapter 5 verse 5 and it says, Humble yourselves under the mighty power of God and at the right time He will lift you up
01:01:42
in honor. It's promise made in the Bible. So humble ourselves and then in God's timetable, He will lift you up in honor. Now, the problem with that is a lot of times is we want it on our own timetable. I get it. But this is clarifying the way that God works. Humble yourselves and He'll take care of the rest. So it's a good word from 1 Peter 5 verse 5 and let's make it
01:02:11
in between our ears. Let's memorize it and make sure we have it, whether it's writing it out long form, whether it's putting it on a little Post-it note and sticking it on your computer monitor at work, or however is best and easiest for you to memorize, let's do it. And look, there's no such thing as, I can't memorize, I'm too old, it's just not, no, Get all of that defeatist attitude out of your thinking because that's absolutely not true. It's a lie from the devil.
01:02:39
You can know God's Word. You can memorize it. So let's do it. Whatever that looks like for you, let's do it over this next week. Again, the verse of the week is 1 Peter chapter 5 verse 5. Every day we like to close up shop by giving you a call to action, a little challenge for you to put into place for your life. And the challenge is your next step, well...
01:03:07
Your next step after listening to today's podcast slash radio show is to put forgiveness in place. Maybe there's something that you've been harboring for a long time, something you just never have quite given over to God and let go of completely. Well, you do that starting now. Again, it's an entire process, but you can do it with God's help. There's no doubt about it. And it's not just a suggestion from God.
01:03:35
It is a command from God that we forgive. End of statement. We gotta follow what he says. That does it. We're out of time for today. Back on the radio tomorrow at three o'clock everywhere else at SteveMarsdenShow.com. Adios.
