How to Talk About Jesus With Nonbelievers | Man to Man Ministry & the Truth Claims of Christ
FULL TRANSCRIPT
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He's just a regular guy with a cool job that God loves for some reason. Welcome to The Steve Marston Show, a daily journey in learning how to live more like Jesus, conversations with those that God is working through, and dad jokes. It's the most unique show you'll hear today. Now here's Steve. And here we are, The Steve Marston Show is up and running for another week. And we are so thankful to be with you.
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that the computer nerds, again, I say that with love in my heart, tell me about, exposes to more people. So it's a two for one kind of thing. So I would really appreciate it and thank you in advance for subscribing to this show as a podcast. Now I wanted to get started today by talking about a podcast that I listened to over the weekend with Howie Mandel. Now, if you're as old as I am, you remember Howie Mandel as a standup comedian.
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during the eighties. He was also an actor in a lot of movies and then kind of transitioned as a game show host. Some of you may remember him from Deal or No Deal. And then here lately, he's been on America's Got Talent as a judge, the bald headed guy with the cool shades, right? Yeah, know, Howie Mandel, very funny guy. Always been a pretty, well, not over the top, but a quasi fan of his.
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Well, he's got a podcast like everybody else in their brother these days, and he hosts it with his daughter. And one of the things I love about Howie and other people of his kind of type of celebrity is they like to have on all kinds of different people, even people that they don't necessarily agree with or buy into what their beliefs are. And he showed that this, this last episode,
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when he welcomed Bryce Crawford. Now we've talked about Bryce Crawford a lot. I'm so impressed by the young man. He's 22 years old. He's been given an amazing platform to be able to evangelize and speak truth into his generation. But like I say, this appearance on Howie Mandel's show has increased his exposure as well to an audience that maybe has never heard the gospel before.
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And I'm so thankful for that. And I'm so thankful that he's been used in that way. Now, the episode was really good. And at the end of it, I'll just give you a little spoiler alert, that Howie and his daughter were very impressed, very respectful of Bryce's beliefs, even though they may not have agreed. And I'm sure they didn't at the end, but they enjoyed the conversation. And it was typical kind of stuff where
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They brought up all these different topics about Christianity and the belief system and everything from homosexuality to transgenderism to sins and what that is and the whole thing. And I hate to be a Monday morning quarterback. And I don't want to come off sounding like I'm upset with Bryce or I didn't think Bryce did a good job because that's not true. He did an amazing job and I think he represented
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the faith incredibly well. But to me, I thought it was something that I could learn from and I think you could learn from as well. Whenever we have conversations with those people in our lives, whether they be family members or co-workers or whomever who see our faith, probably are predisposed not to buy into it, but do have questions. I think instead of
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going after a shotgun approach, kind of like they did on the Howie episode, just hitting boom, boom, boom, these different topics and what the Bible says about them. I think a better strategy would be to go after a foundation of what Christianity really is and what Jesus really is versus just trying to build the walls before the foundation is built. Does that make sense? So here's my
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thoughts on it. I really would have liked to have seen Bryce do this. And again, not picking on him, I'm just using him as an example here. When we find ourselves in these conversations, we need to make sure that we put the claims of Jesus out front so that that will dictate the rest of the conversation. Because as C.S. Lewis said, Jesus is either a liar, meaning he knew
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what he was saying was false and was just deceiving people. He was a lunatic thinking that he really was all of this stuff when he wasn't, or he's actually Lord. Because Jesus cut through all of this, well, all roads lead to heaven and every religion has its good points and its bad points, but eventually we'll all receive heaven or nirvana or whatever you call it in your particular little sect. Just everything leads to that point.
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Jesus said, no, I am the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes to the Father except by me. Now, that's the standard, that's the truth claim that he says. So we have to investigate that. Because look, a lot of people have said that over the years. I mean, if you're as old as I am, you'll remember David Koresh said that. And David Koresh, when you look at the evidence, that was not the case, right?
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I could make that claim that saying that I am the way, truth, and the life, and there's no way to the Father except through me. But you examine my life and you will see that's not the case either. So when we start talking about Jesus' claims, we have to investigate is what he said reasonable? Is it something that is plausible that is likely to have happened? Now again, we can't 100 %
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because none of us were there. But all of the evidence points to the fact that yes, Jesus lived, He died, He rose again, and He said He was coming back soon. So, if all of that is true and the resurrection really happened, that changes everything. And now, Jesus really is who He says He was. He defeated the one enemy that comes for us all.
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No matter how ugly you are, how pretty you are, how smart you are, how dumb you are, how rich you are, how poor you are, we all have an enemy in death. And death is coming for every single one of us. No one has been able to overcome death, right? Not Steve Jobs or Elon Musk with all of their money. Not the best moral person you can think of could overcome their time in appointment with death.
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Jesus said he was going to. In fact, Jesus' claim was that I can lay down my life at any time I want to, and I could pick it up again at any time I want to. Can I get an amen, somebody? That's the claims of Jesus. And when you look at the evidence, it's so overwhelmingly pointing toward, yes, indeed, that is exactly what happened. So I think when we're in these conversations and in these situations,
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with these non-believers who are genuinely trying to figure out why we believe what we believe, we have to make sure they understand that Jesus made these bold, outrageous, never before heard of claims, and that all of the evidence points toward Him being true and Him actually being who He said He was. That's what we ought to, I think,
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focus on so that the conversation can branch off from there. Plenty more coming up. The Steve Marston Show continues in a minute.
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and click the free PDF. It'll come as a digital download to you. Boom, you'll have it immediately and I think it'll help you. So check it out. SteveMarsdenShow.com. All right, it's time for Sunday Morning Takeaways. This is where we go back in time a little bit and kind of relive from you and I both what the Sunday sermon we heard yesterday was about and more importantly, how we can use it through the week. What are things that kind of stood out to us and
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My pastor has been in the book of Joshua for the last several weeks, and yesterday he preached on Joshua 23, which is Joshua's farewell address to the nation. You think about it, at least I do, in the terms of presidents, when they are just about ready to leave office, they can't run again, they give their final State of the Union address as to what they want their legacy to be. Well, that's what...
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Joshua is doing, only Joshua is wanting the people to understand that, yes, you had Moses to begin from the Exodus all the way up to the doorstep of the Promised Land. I've been with you ever since entering the Promised Land and conquering all of the nations. Now we're at peace. Now everything is good. But we got to be careful because it's in the good times. It's in the easy times that
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we drift away from God. And that's what he's talking about here. And he gives the foundation of, listen, if you choose to do what your fathers did, meaning your ancestors, and following after other gods, and being influenced by the culture around you, you're gonna find that God is not going to bless you. In fact, God is going to be against you if you do that. And he calls the nation,
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and says, look, choose you this day whom you're going to serve. If it's good for you to serve the gods of this culture, then do it. But if it seems right to you to choose our God, Yahweh, the creator of heaven and earth, then follow Him. He says, and for me in my house, I'm going to follow the Lord. And it's just a wonderful reminder of how we can't choose for everybody.
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But for us in your house and in my house, we can choose to follow God and we ought to choose to follow God. No matter what else people in our culture are doing or saying, it's up to us in our little family unit to say, know what, we're not going to follow that way. We're going to follow the way of the Bible. And I know that sounds really easy and kind of basic 101 stuff.
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But it truly is foundational. It's truly something we have to settle in our hearts that we are going to follow God. And then when Joshua wraps it up, he says, listen, I'm going today but like the way of the earth, meaning I'm going to die. And I want you to know that God's words have never failed you and have never failed me. But he says, as he wrapped up Joshua chapter 23,
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when you transgress the covenant of the Lord your God, which he commanded you, and go and serve other gods and bow down to them, the anger of the Lord will burn against you, and you will quickly perish from off the good land which he has given you." And the people all agreed and said yes and amen, but as we read through the rest of Scripture and the rest of the Old Testament especially, that promise was hollow and fell flat, and the people didn't do that.
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and God's judgment and wrath came upon the people. In fact, this wonderful land that they were promised all the way back with Abraham and was finally fulfilled through Joshua leading them in, they were kicked out of the land. And it was because of idolatry. It was because they forsook their God and they didn't follow what he had instructed. It's just a great lesson for us all to realize
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that it's a day-by-day deal and we've got to continue to push forward in our faith and not allow the culture and allow the things around us to influence us and to take us away because it is incredibly easy for that to happen. All right, I wanted to get from you what your Sunday morning takeaways were and several of you checked in. Dana checked in with Jeremiah 36 and 45 says, God gave Jeremiah a word
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He gave it to Baruch and Baruch had to carry it out publicly and if it was a difficult word, she said, Baruch became exhausted and groaned under the weight of it. And she references Jeremiah 45.3. She said, Baruch was carrying such a heavy assignment in a very dark time, but God heard his groaning. God protected his perspective and corrected his perspective, I should say, and promised to protect him. It was like God said, Baruch, I see you.
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Sometimes we find ourselves in a tough season of life, maybe not where we wanted to be, but God sees us. Do what he's called you to do. He will take care of you. You will make it. See, that's good stuff. I love that. Thank you, Dana. Let's see, who else checked in? Fran said, Acts 19 verses 11 through 41, said the foundations beginning a move of God, idol breaking. She said the three biggest idols are very familiar in our world. Sex,
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money and power, but they come from a misleading desire. Sex is a misunderstood desire for love, money is a misunderstood desire for security, and power is a misunderstood idol for identity. And then she said they ended with Ephesians 1 chapter 18 and 19 talking about the eyes of your understanding will be enlightened that you may know the hope of his calling. What are the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints?
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And what is it? The exceeding greatness of His power towards us who believe according to the working of His almighty power. And then Fran wraps up by saying, having Jesus will satisfy all of our desires. Ooh, I like that too. Okay, we've got time for one more. Joyce said, Genesis 27, Jacob lying to Isaac his dad about who he was when he took him the cooked meal from Rebecca his wife. Jacob being concerned he'd get caught, but his mom told him,
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that she would take care of all the consequences. And boy, there was a ton of those consequences for sure. Thanks everybody. Appreciate your Sunday morning takeaways. Back after this.
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Welcome back to Steve Marston Show Continues.
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Faith and fun are taken seriously here. And we're glad that you're with us. Swing by our YouTube page when you get a chance. It's completely updated. Lots of videos every day. Lots of shorts as well. And we'd love for you to share them, be able to post them on your own timeline. That'll help this show continue to grow. But also, it'll be an encouragement to you as well. So check it out, youtube.com slash Steve Marston show. And of course,
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like every podcaster slash radio host says, hit the subscribe button, hit the notifications bell so you'll know when we upload fresh content. Okay, I'm so looking forward to this conversation today. I just can't tell you how much. John Vance is joining us and he is a guy who is with the ministry that is called Man to Man and it's operating out of a pregnancy center in Arkansas and
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This is just so fascinating. I had a chance to hear John speak at a luncheon not too long ago, and I was just amazed that I didn't know more about this. And so I wanted to kind of shine the light on this man-to-man ministry. First of all, John, welcome to the Steve Martian show. So glad that you're here. Yeah, Steve. Thanks so much for having me, man. Really, it's a pleasure to be here. Well, it's an honor to be able to talk to you as well.
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Let's start off with a little bit about yourself and your background, because I know you have served as a pastor before. Let's talk a little bit about how you came to know Christ as your Savior, how you got into the ministry, and then how God opened the door for you to be doing something as unique as this man-to-man ministry. Yeah, sure. So I grew up in the church. I thought I was a believer.
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I was part of the youth group, thought I was a believer, kind of went through the motions, man. I knew about God, but I didn't know Him. I didn't know Him intimately. I would have fallen into that Matthew 7 camp, Steve, know, when Jesus says, many are going to say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, you know, and on that day, hear Him say, depart from me, you workers of iniquity. I never knew you. And that was me.
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You know, I knew about God, but I didn't have a saving relationship with Christ. And it wasn't until, I mean, I was married. I met my wife in college. We both went to UCA. We met in 2009, got married in 2010. Thinking, you know, I was a believer, my wife as well, fell into that same camp thinking she was a believer. But we were slaves to sin, And we got married and it was probably four years, four, maybe five years into our marriage.
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pregnant with our second child. was just, uh, I was reading the word of God, man. And, um, the lights came on and the Lord did a work of grace. I realized that I was a slave to sin and I went into my closet that night. I was reading and just fell on my knees and cried out to God to have mercy on me. Um, I was born again by God's grace. Um, you know, I first Peter one 23 says, you know, we've been born again, not a perishable seed, but an imperishable seed to the living and abiding word of God. And that's, that's what it was. It was just reading God's word and
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and realizing that I didn't know him. didn't know him. And then some years later, it was actually a few years later, my wife was born again, praise be to God. And so by God's grace, man, our marriage is in a sweet spot. I love her more today than I've ever loved her. If she was sitting here, she would tell you the same thing. It's all of grace that we're still married and we're so thankful to God, man.
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for what he has done in our lives and in our marriage. And I've been married for 16 years. We have two wonderful boys. We have a 13-year-old named Noah, an 11-year-old named Nathan, and we live in West Little Rock. And I work here at New Beginnings Pregnancy Center, and I'm the man-to-man manager. It's the Fatherhood Ministry of New Beginnings. I also serve at Fellowship Bible Church. We have a bilingual campus, Fellowship Espanol.
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and I serve as a lay pastor alongside our elders, Alfredo and Dave, and we have been there. We've been members of Felicidad Espanyol for about five years, and we love our church. We are thankful to God for our church. It's a beautiful church. So, yeah, praise be to God. It's all of grace, man. Your story is a lot like mine. I was the same way. There was never a time in my life when I did not know who Jesus was, why came, all of that. But you're right, until
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I came to grips with the fact after a few years of kind of wandering and trying to figure out it all on my own that I just hit my knees and cried out to God as a 17 year old kid saying, God, I know there's got to be more to this than what I'm experiencing. I don't feel like I know you. And he opened my eyes and opened my heart. And it was such a blessing. I said, you know, I said, if you'll...
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reveal yourself to me, I will follow you." And that's what's happened. He's opened my eyes and I've just never been able to go back, you know? Even if I would have tried, I don't think I would have been able to. So it's such a powerful story, such a story of grace like you're talking about. John Vance is our guest here on the Steve Marston show, and we're going to talk about Zero In specifically now on this man-to-man ministry, because you work at a pregnancy center,
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where you see ladies all day, they come in with all kinds of backgrounds, all kinds of stories as to why they're there at the pregnancy center. They're being counseled by people and given information and education. But so many times, the man is left out of the equation. Sometimes that's by choice, but other times it's just like, hey, this is no longer your concern when...
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Actually, it kind of is. The guy had a little bit of a role in the whole deal. Yeah, yeah, it takes two to tango, right? Exactly. Yes, man. Fathers are often overlooked. And of course, we live in a culture where it says fathers don't contribute anything really, or they don't matter. But the reality is fathers are valuable and vitally important in the lives of the mother and the child.
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They are the core of the family and I think it was Vody Bakken who says as the father goes so goes the family and so, you know, one of the reasons we exist is to Engage these men who are coming through our doors with the mother, you know the vast majority of them are unmarried and the Plank pregnancies are unplanned, you know, and they're certainly not expecting to meet a man when they walk through our doors, you know, most of these guys are just you know, attending the appointment and
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And they're here, which is great. They're here with the mother of their child, but they're certainly not expecting to sit down and talk with me or one of our volunteers. So it's a privilege to be here and have the opportunity to welcome these guys, man. We just try to welcome them through our doors with a smile, go out, we greet them, we offer them a cup of coffee or a soda or some snacks. And while mother's meeting with one of our female advocates,
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preparing to take a pregnancy test or preparing for the ultrasound, we bring the guys back and we just try to sit down and talk to them. We try to ask good open-ended questions because questions allow us to really get to know them and understand them and be able to help them. And so one of the things we want to do well here, and we're growing in this to be sure, Steve, is
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is learning to listen, learning to ask good open-ended questions, probing penetrating questions that really kind of allow us to go into the home of their heart. Again, just to know them, understand them, and be able to really help them. We don't get a lot of time with them, which is kind of one of our challenges. We might have anywhere 15, 20 minutes. 30 plus minutes is a bonus. But a lot of times in that initial meeting, it's just 15 or 20 minutes. So we just, we try to break down.
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these barriers and cultivate some level of trust just by asking them sincere, honest questions. And our approach, you know, when Paul says in Colossians 4 and 2 through 6, you know, he's in prison, he says, pray, continue steadfastly in prayer, being watchful in it with Thanksgiving. But he says, pray also for us that the Lord may open a door for the Word. And that's our prayer, is that as we're sitting down with these fathers who don't know us,
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you know, that as we're asking questions that the Lord would open a door for us to sow the word, just to sow the word, because faith comes through hearing and hearing through the word of Christ, know, Romans 10-17. And so, sometimes that might just be a single verse, you know, sometimes in that 10 or 15 minutes, it's just, you know, man, children are a precious gift from the Lord, you know, Psalm 127.3 says, children are a gift from the Lord, fruit of the womb, a reward from Him.
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And so we just want him to know that, that he gives life, breath, and everything, and that this child is a precious gift from him. And then sometimes the Lord opens the door wide open for us just to maybe briefly explain the gospel. And that's awesome. And of course, our prayer, Paul prays in Ephesians 6, or he's requesting prayer, says, you know, just pray that the Lord would give me the words to speak boldly, clearly and boldly as I ought to.
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And that's another thing we pray about and we work on here, is just, you know, praying for Lord to open doors for the Word, and then speaking clearly and boldly as we ought when the Lord does do that. And then just praying for salvation. The vast majority of these fathers and mothers don't know Christ. They haven't set foot in the local church in years, if ever. They have really not a lot of support, you know, outside of maybe family, which is great. And we're, of course,
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an additional support system, but man, they need a church, they need a church home. And so our goal here, Steve, is we know we're not the church, we are not the church, we are not replacing the church, supplanting the local church. Our goal is to be a pathway to the local church. We want to see fathers and mothers transformed by the gospel of grace, because we know a person's greatest need is to be reconciled to God. So we pray for fathers and mothers.
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and families to be transformed by the gospel of grace and we want to help them get connected to a local church where they'll receive that long-term care and discipleship. And then we're of course a pathway for the local church, for members of the body of Christ to come and exercise their gifts, to come and serve and reach people who need Christ. And so we talk about that a lot. We're just a pathway to the local church so that the local church is the end game. You know, when they come through our doors, our prayer is that they're eventually connected to a local church.
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Yeah, we have a lot of resources, classes, trainings available to these Fathers, men, and so when we're sitting with them, we certainly want to make them aware of all that's available to them and encourage them to take advantage of these resources that will bless and benefit them and their families. John Vance is our guest here. He is with ministry called Man to Man. He operates out in a crisis pregnancy center here in central Arkansas, but this is a
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need that is nationwide, not just for here locally. And the thing I'm so impressed with is the fact that, number one, there is this ministry. And when you have a chance to talk to these guys, I'm sure everyone is different because everybody has a different story, but when they sit down to talk to you, what is kind of their first reaction? Are they kind of guarded, defensive?
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Are they scared? mean, what's usually the kind of the thing you're dealing with? Yeah, that's a great question, Steve. It's really probably one of our greater challenges because we really don't know what we're walking into. Again, these guys are pretty surprised to meet a man when they come into the pregnancy center. So there is a spectrum and on one end of the spectrum, you
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you might have, you have those who are, you know, abortion minded or adamant about having an abortion. And then the other end of the spectrum is you have guys who are, you know, sincerely excited about being fathers. And then you have everything in between and you don't know kind of where they are on that spectrum until you're sitting down and talking with them. And so some of them, yeah, some of these guys come in, man, they're just, you know, all I have to do is ask, man, how are you feeling about being a father? And they just kind of fold over in their chair, you know, they're not.
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They're not, they don't, you they're not abortion minded, but they have no idea what to do. know, they don't have a support system. They, they, they don't know what's next. They don't know what to do. And then those moments, we just kind of want to like lift their chin. We want to make sure they, they understand there's help and there's hope. And that, you know, we're here to be an additional support system for them and walk alongside them. We're not just here to.
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to implore you to keep your baby, like we want to walk alongside you. We ask, man, let us walk alongside you through this. You don't have to do this alone. You can't do this alone. And that's what's so good about the pro-life movement in general, but especially this man-to-man ministry, is the fact that that's exactly what you want to do. You're not just here to discourage abortion, and we'll see you later, but actually be there for them step-by-step for years at a time.
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Yes. Yes. We were willing to walk alongside them. They can continue to take advantage of our services until their child is two years old. Wow. And so, yeah, man, we're with them again. The end game is to get them connected to a local church where they'll continue to receive that care and that discipleship. But yeah, I mean, the reactions are different. As we're sitting down with these guys and asking questions again, we can kind of find out where they are and better understand them.
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Some are pretty hard. Some are unwilling to really talk and some are very open Steve And so again, we're just praying for the Lord to give us the words In those conversations, we just try to ask questions and then listen well and respond accordingly But it is encouraging when some of these guys come in man. They're just prepared to hear the word They're open. They're ready to hear the Lord has prepared their hearts to hear the word. That's that's man It's so encouraging and then there's the harder conversations, of course with maybe those who are
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you know, abortion minded, a harder conversation, for example, could be, you know, some of these guys come in and maybe the mother is abortion minded and you're asking them how they feel about being a father or just how they feel about the pregnancy in general. And they're like, well, you know, I'm all right. It's really her choice. And, know, whatever she decides I'm good with. And that sounds loving, but it's not because all the pressure is on her.
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you when you're saying it's her choice, it's her body, her choice. And of course, that's a lie that our culture perpetuates. Like you said earlier, it takes two to make a baby. That's your baby inside of her, you know, and it's a gift from the Lord. so we want them to, we want to cut through that lie with biblical truth. We want them to know that, their voice is the most influential in the mother's decision. And the mom is listening to them and they need to...
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They need to express how they feel, what they're thinking and how they feel. She needs to know that it's not loving her to put that on her and say, well, it's really your decision. Whatever you do, I'm good with, you know, right. That's actually, that's actually just kind of scapegoating out of it for sure. Man. Time is just flying by John. We have like less than 30 seconds left. Tell everyone how they can get in contact with man to man and maybe even start one in their neighborhood. Yes, absolutely.
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They want to reach out. You can reach out to me at John, J-O-H-N at NB for new beginnings, NBpregnancy.com. Man, Care Net is a great organization. I would encourage guys who are interested in starting a fatherhood ministry at their local pregnancy center to start with Care Net, reach out to those guys. They can reach out to us. John Vance, you are really doing the Lord's work. And I mean that sincerely. I'm so thankful that a ministry like this even exists. And I'm thankful that you're there on the front lines.
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Thanks so much for your time and God bless you, my friend. Thanks, Steve. I appreciate it, brother. Thanks so much,
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Thanks for listening. The Steve Marston Show is back. Discipleship has never been more fun. Grateful for your company today and I want to tell you about our website, SteveMarstonShow.com. We're so thankful that God has opened the door the way He has with this website because it is so much more than just a home page for a radio show. This is really becoming a resource kind of library that is being seen by
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a lot of people, when I say a lot of people, mean both those of us in the Christian bubble and those outside. When people are going to these major search engines and typing in Christian topics, they're going to get a chance to see our resources, whether it be conversations we've had with people or whether it be some of my thoughts or something like Sunday morning takeaways that we did earlier. They're going to be exposed to that. It's something that's an answer to prayer because
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When we started this, I wanted to show and the website to be much more than me. That's the last thing I wanted. I wanted to be able to reach people in a unique way with the gospel and to be able to help us grow our faith. And I think it's doing it. And I think we're getting close and we're continuing. We're not close, we're there. We just got to continue to do what we're doing. So it's really exciting. And I would love for you to check out our page. It's Steve Marston Show.
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Click around and let me know what you think. And again, I just want it to be a resource for you. So check it out, SteveMarsdenShow.com. Let's get to some stories that you may have missed. This is very sad. There's the largest Christian music festival in the UK was happening not terribly long ago and they had to call it off. In fact, it was a Friday night.
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that they had to just cancel the whole event because a sign fell and actually killed a person and injured six others. It's the biggest three-day festival drawing more than 38,000 people. It's called the Big Church Festival. There was going to be performances by Lauren Daigle, C.C. Winans, as well as for King and Country and others, and a pastor.
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from the Living Water Church in Eastbourne. I'm not sure where that is. Was killed when he was struck by a large falling sign near the stage. And GoFundMe has been set up for his wife and for his daughter. And they have raised already $169,000 against that goal of $190,000. wow, that's some goods coming out of that tragedy. But man, just a bizarre freak accident there.
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Man, you hate to hear that. Let's see, Dallas Jenkins. Here's another story that you may have missed. He is the creator and showrunner and Mr. Everything behind the scenes for the Chosen series. he said that him being an evangelistic Protestant and Jonathan Rumi, the guy who plays Jesus in the series as a Catholic,
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hasn't really caused any kind of friction on set with anything. A lot of people were asking that kind of question if there was any kind of, hey, what about this or what about that? In fact, Dallas Jenkins said the closest that they came was during this season six that they just completed filming. And they were talking about a particular line where Dallas Jenkins thought Jesus was
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saying the line kind of half-heartedly, kind of in jest maybe, and Rumi objected to that saying it wasn't a theological issue, but Jonathan was extremely uncomfortable with the notion that Jesus would be going through that much suffering and would be able to say something casual or light-hearted, then Jenkins added, and you think that's not a theological issue, but for him it was, because it's like he's going through so much suffering, he's going through so much suffering for a reason.
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suffering is actually a part of the theology. So there you go, a little bit of ideas and conflict there, but they worked it out and it's really good, especially as The Chosen getting ready to wrap up its run. They're going to be this season focusing on Passion Week leading up to the crucifixion, which I'm kind of ready for, just to be honest, because it seems like
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The Chosen, once it became such a big hit that it, I don't want to say it'd be critical, but it feels like they kind of started watering it down a little bit. And what I mean by that is not necessarily the theology, but just stretching the story out for as long as they could before getting to the climax. They really added, I think, seasons that didn't necessarily need. They could have told the stories and still be compelling.
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and taking some of the air out of it and some of the maybe superfluous stuff. But you know, that's just me and my armchair quarterbacking. Who am I to argue with the success that The Chosen has had because it has been incredible and thankful that everybody is being exposed to it for sure. Another story you may have missed comes from our friends over at ChurchLeaders.com. Jessica Mauser has written this piece about
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a podcast in which one of former Zoey Girl members, Alyssa Childers, on talking about Jen Hatmaker. Now you may remember Jen Hatmaker from about 15 years ago or so. She was kind of the Christian it girl. She had sold a bunch of books, had a bunch of workbooks and devotionals that were best sellers as well. And she was really following in the footsteps of people like Priscilla Shrier and Beth Moore in that kind of women's ministry space.
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Then all of a sudden, some personal things started happening in Jen's life and she got a divorce. Then that led to her questioning some of her faith. And then all of a sudden now, she just pretty much is alienated and said Christianity is not legitimate and not real in her life anymore. And they were talking about the fact that how so many Christian ladies who were influenced by her,
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have been led astray as well. And they were talking about one of the reasons is because Jen was so likable and so legitimately funny, and that's what attracts a huge platform, is someone who is funny and relatable is going to have people following them for that reason alone. However, they go on to talk about how there's no conversation about, well, what does the Bible really teach? Especially when Hatmaker came out and said there's no literal hell, which was a few months ago she said that.
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And they continue to talk about, what you taught as a kid, is that consistent with what the Bible teaches? They said, well, no, no one's concerned about that at all. And Childer says, Jen's whole reasoning for not believing Christianity is that, quote, I feel better, my faith is stronger, and I believe in Jesus more now than I ever had, but it's her own Jesus. Anyway, a really interesting piece there by, uh,
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Jessica Maurer over at ChurchLeaders.com that you can check out for yourself. Really thought provoking stuff. More coming up. The Steve Marston Show rolls on before you know it.
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Here at the Steve Marston Show, we're serious about faith, but we love a good dad joke too. The dad joke of the day is a classic and it comes from the home office in Mulverde, Texas. I used to hate facial hair. Oh yeah, couldn't stand it. But then it grew on me.
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Classics are a classic for a reason, right? Steve Marston's joke continues.
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Discipleship has never been more fun. And we're grateful for your company. Don't forget that we are looking for partners with this project. Whether you're looking at radio or digital marketing, we can help you out with the Steve Marston Show. Our audience continues to grow every single day and we can help your business, church or ministry get the word out. And it's really simple and it's really inexpensive too. So if you
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or in San Antonio listening on radio or Little Rock listening on radio or online anywhere else, let me know and we can get you in contact with the people who can help you out. Steve at Salemmedia.com, Steve at Salemmedia.com will be the email address you can send that to and I will personally make sure that we get the right person to you and we can help you grow and get your messaging out.
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to as many people as possible through this little radio show slash podcast venture. All right, every week we have another Bible verse that we learn together. We call it Faith Between Your Ears. This is where we memorize a verse all through the week so that by Friday we have it not only in our heart, but like I say, in between our ears so that we can know God's Word because I'm just convinced.
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Knowing God's means so much to our growth and to our intimacy with God. We won't ever take those next steps and go deeper in our walk without understanding and knowing His Word. So let's get to our verse. It comes from Micah in the Old Testament, chapter 6 verse 8. says, He has told you, O man, what is good and what does the Lord require of you?
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but to do good, to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God. That's the Faith Between Our Ears verse for this week. We're going to memorize it together, however it takes you to memorize, we want you to do that, but just think about what that verse says, that you know what to do. He's told us what to do, and we think, well, what is that? Well, to do justice, to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God. It's basically...
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like the Ten Commandments, summarized down to just three, you know, really good and powerful stuff to know in a great verse to have committed to memory, Micah 6-8. So we'll be going over it again tomorrow here on the Steve Marston Show. As we wrap up, we like to always leave you with a call to action, something that you can do that's the next step. And I think the next step for you is to continue to look for ways
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to let people know about the truth claims of Jesus, to set that foundation, especially when you're talking with family members and friends who don't really buy into it. Let them know what he claimed and let them know that the evidence points toward him being true versus anything else. All right, that does it for today. Have a tremendous rest of your afternoon. We're back tomorrow at three o'clock on the radio, everywhere else online at SteveMarsdenShow.com. Adios.
